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The Unquestionable War

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Dashhammer II Amarr Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.03.31 09:01:00 - [1] Edited by: Dashhammer II on 31/03/2007 08:57:52 So we have some coalition that are thrilled to death that they only spent 30-50 dreads on destroying that titan. And we have bob, not really divulging what was destroyed. What I fail to understand is- what are we fighting for anyway? Don't get me wrong, I know what I am fighting for. I am fighting to protect BOB. I am doing it becuase there have been countless times in the past when BOB has faught to protect me. But the coalition? That is something I don't understand in the slightest. They drag themselves across the entire galaxy to wage war against a brick wall and they confidently proclaim that thier unity is unquestionable. They have become the mighty fist of all eve that has banded together to smash BOB. They loose 50 dreads and they say 'It was nothing! We can replace that easilly!' Who can? Who exactly? Is D2 going to replace each capital ship that allied groups threw away for thier war? They've said it time and again '50 dreads! Pfffft!' How easy it must be to throw away the assets of another. But the allies of D2 aren't in question here. I understand why they are helping D2. What I don't understand is why D2 is using that aid for such a pointless war. What if the coalition wins? Does the coalition REALLY expect thousands upon thousands of ACTIVE players to suddenly recieve some glorious defeat which convinces them that they have to go and live in empire? Does D2 really believe it is going to take all of BOB space for itself and devide it up evenly among it's newfound friends? I've asked before if anyone had considered whether or not this war will ever end. I ask you now to consider whether or not we have even seen the start of it. D2 and Iron and friends have been in Bobspace before. Back then they were called G alliance. They took the same stations and faught the same battles with the same people in similiar ways. (There were no titans back then) That was a year ago and even then we spoke not of G's sudden anger towards bob, but of thier 'rehashing' of hostillities which were even older. I was sieging a POS today and I got a sudden feeling of Deja Vu. Why is D2/G alliance/Iron/Pheonix Alliance whatever you want to call them, why are they trying this AGAIN?! This is like the 4th time in 4 years and it didn't work the last 3 times. If the coalition is defeated, will D2 be back in a year with a new name? I mean honestly- ask yourselves... What is this really all about?
Dashhammer II Amarr Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.03.31 09:34:00 - [2] Originally by: Gordon Red Everybody will be back in a year! You ask why?!? Because we pay for a game to phewphew! We all want to win or loose against the best. I want to believe that. I really do. I want to believe that becuase it is the simplest answer. It paints a picture of people standing around going 'What do you want to do?' 'I don't know, what do you want to do?' 'Beats me, what do you want to do?' 'Well we haven't attacked Bob in a while' 'Hey, you guys attacking Bob?' 'Yeah' 'Yep!' 'Hey let me get in on that, I missed out on it last year' Can that really be all there is to it? Just a small group of bored CEOs that get together with bored CEOs on the other side of the galaxy and pick a fight.... becuase they need something to do?
Dashhammer II Amarr Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.03.31 09:51:00 - [3] Edited by: Dashhammer II on 31/03/2007 09:49:02 Alright, I can understand that. But then why all the hate? Coalition peeps accuse Bob of GM intervention on a daily basis. If they are simply attacking to have fun, then why does it matter who wins? I can definately appreciate 'waging a war for the fun of it'. But let us not forget that D2 ended a couple of wars just so that they could attack Bob. If all the coalition is after is a bit of pewpew then why did they halt a war so that they could attack Bob? When it comes down to it, we can all pewpew anytime we want, where ever we are and we have countless nieghbors to invade. There is a definate undercurrent here. But I would rather believe it is for simple fun. I would like nothing more than to engage you all in an all out gankfest and have no hard feelings at the end of the day. Whatever the reason for this may be, we should really move it towards an atmosphere of friendly fun.
Dashhammer II Amarr Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.04.01 02:01:00 - [4] I've heard all the accusations pertaining to Bob using cheats and hacks. I don't believe them for a minute. The devs didn't create eve so that they could sit around in BOB alliance and use hacks against other players before smacktalking them. They made this game for money, of which there is little- in iceland. Now we all know that there are devs among us and that they are spread out through out the entire galaxy not all clustered up in Bob. They do this for testing reasons, they do it so that they can shut down hacks and exploits as they are descovered. Anyone who has ever been involved with the creation of a game can see the benifit in this. As for crime/punishment, I have only seen the harshest, most draconian treatment of players and developers alike that get cuaght cheating by the GMs. I have complete faith that if you see a hack or exploit, you can petition it and GM Nova will chase it down and burn the person that did it, regardless of ingame allegiance.
Dashhammer II Amarr Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.04.01 02:12:00 - [5] Originally by: Sir Howard Stop trying to sound so freakin smart or philosophical. Its a game...I pay to play it...the main focus of the game is pvp....so I'll shoot who I like. Here is the thing. I don't subscribe to the 'It's just a game' arguement. I came to EVE from another game entirely called 'Mankind', I was in a guild there called HCI and when we came over we made a corp of the same name. I took a short vacation and came back to find out that we had all left HCI and joined Black Nova Corp and thus formed BOB. (Some vacation, I know). I was asked to join them in BNC but I declined. I was still basically a noob and I wanted more experience before jumping into something like that. I joined OTO and after several months of being chased and podded and harrassed and griefed by people that chanted 'It's just a game!', I asked my old friends for help. And they helped! They got me into touch with blacklight and blacklight paved the way for us to join Tribal Souls. And it was great! We loved it. Time and time and time again, Bob has been there for me and I've always stuck close to them. Every time I go through delve or period basis I see the same faces. Fix, Exertu Mortis, MC, Fallen-souls. These are my friends. These are my friends and they live here with us in peace becuase of BOB. So you can claim it's just a game all you want. But to me it's not. This is my home and this is my family. We don't always agree, we don't always get along, but we are always there for each other. Alex is right, we live here for free becuase the price of defending your friends and family is already a terrible cost. So please- I'll accept that for some (if not most) it's just a game. But I want you to realize that for some (if not most) of us, it's not.
Dashhammer II Amarr Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.04.01 02:49:00 - [6] Originally by: Kenneys Simple really.. BoB plans on world domination. And is pretty much close to achieving it. After ASCN fell, BoB gets bored.. and needs to attack something. It's either north, or the russians, or goonswarm. So these three had a choice.. band together and take out bob, or wait for bob to take them out one at a time. That sounds like a George Bush thing to say. "Country X *could* have attacked us so we attacked them first!" I would make a case that they had no intentions of attacking the north but I fear it would be too similiar to why Iraq had no intention of attacking the US. If BOB plans on conquering eve then they are seriously taking thier time doing it.
Dashhammer II Amarr Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.04.01 04:48:00 - [7] Originally by: Raivi You seem to simply be belittling the motivations of the other side in an attempt to break their resolve. If I was in in BoB, I'd want to fight this war. If I was in another alliance with significant territorial ambitions, I'd want to join the coalition. If I was in an alliance who's game goals do not include fully independent territorial control (which is perfectly legitimate), then I would want to pick a side and help them in order to rent space afterwards. It's pretty easy to explain this war if you put yourself in the shoes of the people involved. I hope I don't sound like I am belittling anyone. Please believe it is not my intention. I also have no intention of trying to 'Break the resolve' of the coalition. If thats even possible. I've posed this question becuase I've recently gotten the impression that (much like what people have been saying in this thread) there is no reason for the war. It appears, both here in the forums as well as in game, that the majority of the coalition is fighting 'just for the fun of it'. The reasoning that you gave however, is a bit of a fresh perspective. Territorial ambitions and oppertunistic corperations, these explanations denote greed. It is a possibility that is well with in the scope of what has happened. Perhaps the problem that SOME D2 allies have had is not so much the expansionistic habits of BOB but rather the diplomatic ties it has (or had) with alliances that the coalition wanted to conquer. Namely LV. You yourself even said 'Bob attacked us while we were all attacking LV, how dare they.' These personalities with in the coalition, whomever they may be, are probably sick of BOB presence simply becuase they limit expansion by protecting thier allies. This would imply that the coalition is not just 'pewpewing for the fun of it'. This would imply deep diplomatic tensions. Am I way off base here? Please correct me if you have information that runs counter to this.
Dashhammer II Amarr Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.04.01 04:55:00 - [8] Alright alright, lets calm down here kingdoc. We were being all civil and then ya like freaked out at the end there. Lets take it down a notch. Drop the name calling.
Dashhammer II Amarr Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.04.01 13:31:00 - [9] Originally by: David H'Levi The North: Wow, did you see BoB smash ASCN? And the Goons? And TRUST? And G? And FIX? Et cetera, et cetera. Looks like they're going around attacking every big alliance for fun... Hrm! This appears to be a common misconception. The idea that Bob is running around bullying people is definately an ancient one and Bob itself seems to do nothing to dispell this idea. The thing is however that it simply isn't true. I have seen bob exercise a great deal of patience with those that assualt them, often leaving them alone right up untill they are POS spammed. ASCN: I hate to say it but BOB was never too thrilled that ASCN destroyed thier allies 'Tribal Souls' but still, nearly a year after that they began to have border disagreements with ASCN. ASCN's reasoning was (for the most part) that this was a fighting game and what is EVE with out pewpew? ASCN attack groups swarmed into BOBspace for a good while and BOB humored this. There was a tongue in cheek attitude to the whole thing and various rules were observed during the war itself. ASCN took the first station in TPAR and up untill that point BOB hadn't even applied much pressure on them. After repulsing ASCN, they stopped. It wasn't untill the insults and accusations and slander began that BOB's attitude changed. Cyvok had difficulty controlling his forum warriors and the war turned from friendly to downright vicious very quickly. Still ASCN did not apologize for the things that were said or the things that were done. They insisted that BOB learn it's place and begin treating them as the stronger alliance. Find the moment when BOB declared it would not accept an ASCN surrender and you will know the moment in which the war REALLY started. G Alliance: Border disputes were a common occurance with G Alliance becuase of thier habit of raiding nieghbors which were not napped for 'Pewpew'. As a former member of Blackguard Brigade, I can recount many instances when we attacked alliances that we were not at war with for 'the fun of it'. It wasn't a single raid on BOBspace which started this war, it was several. That on top of the fountain dispute, pushed G alliance to invade bobspace. Thats right, I said INVADE. I know that people enjoy seeing bob as the agressor but let us not forget that I was there. I remember when the station in C9n was called the 'G/iron/Razor spearhead'. I aslo remember when G alliance dragged both Tribal Souls and ASCN into the war against them simply becuase thier esotaria contingent was stationed too far away from BOBspace and they wanted to get some 'pewpew' fun in as well. Fix: Fix has always been the absolute best of friends with bob. They currently live with BOB. In fact, BOB was defending FIX on such a regular basis that FIX eventually ceded the BOB and became a caretaker alliance. Don't believe me? Go attack FIX right now, see what happens. Goons: Don't get me started.
Dashhammer II Amarr Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.04.01 15:45:00 - [10] Originally by: JaeWoo Anyway, as has been stated already. The biggest target in the game will always be under attack. That should really be the answer to your question. You want to have the lion's share? The hyena's are gonna do their best to take it from you. I guess that is quite true. A bit sad, but quite true. Well, if it's simple conflict the coalition is after then I guess it will please them to know that we are going to fight like lions.

Dashhammer II Amarr Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.04.15 07:40:00 - [11] So you feel a diplomatic option is impossible?
Dashhammer II Amarr Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.04.15 10:20:00 - [12] Alright guys, think about what you all just said becuase if I take your collective comments and add them all up into one, I get... Bob attacked G to be mean. Bob attacked ASCN becuase they wanted ASCN space. Bob attacked RA/goon becuase they were bored. Bob attacked D2/Iron becuase, well... they didn't attacked them, but they were just days away from it. Guys, I'm sorry, but even if I were to ignore the fact that I was a part of most these wars, I would still find it hard to believe that BOB just randomly attacks people for no reason.
Dashhammer II Amarr Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.04.15 10:34:00 - [13] Can you say that from a position of certainty? Thats my entire question right there.

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